A good place to start

[vajramukti]

michael said:

Religion is not about conformity. At it's essence, religion is about likeminded spiritual seekers coming together as a group. Unfortunately, a generation or two later, the group may begin to embrace the dogma more than the search for truth, but that is not what religion is about.

Vaj you have just described conformity for me.....

con·form
–verb (used without object)
1. to act in accordance or harmony; comply (usually fol. by to): to conform to rules.
2. to act in accord with the prevailing standards, attitudes, practices, etc., of society or a group: One has to conform in order to succeed in this company.
3. to be or become similar in form, nature, or character.
4. to be in harmony or accord.
5. to comply with the usages of an established church, esp. the Church of England.
–verb (used with object)
6. to make similar in form, nature, or character.
7. to bring into agreement, correspondence, or harmony.
–adjective

It is my opinion that likeminded people coming together to share are not conforming. In order to conform, you must first start "outside of harmony."

And while there are many religions with which one must conform to attain membership, I still don't believe that religion is ABOUT conformity. It certainly is not for me.

However, you are an artist, and I am not. You are creative and likely a very "right brain thinker." I am not. I am analytical and very left brained. Rules and order make sense to me and I find freedom of spirit in tradition and ritual. So, where I would be apt to seek to find a church that has the set of traditions that I feel allows me to express my spirituality to it's fullest, you would be apt to create your own.

I will also have to disagree that spirituality is a voyage of one. Certainly, some parts of it have to be, but look at us.

There is enough room in this universe, for 6 billion Gods.
We can interact physical with each other, but how are we to interact spiritually.

First and foremost, we must arrive at who we REALLY are. Then, we must interact with others as that person. Young children and the elderly are closer to it. Youngsters have no pretense and they're cute. Elderly have no patience for pretense and often have no tact.

It is difficult (major understatement) to remain true to yourself and tactfully navigate the perceptions of others.

I think that you are starting at your own perception of a particular religion, Catholicism, and lumping all religions in with it.

You have a point here! It is a sore spot.
I live in a very Catholic community her in Saskatchewan. I have asked many of these questions of people here in Debden. My Aunt and I have spoken many times on this subject. I once asked her "Why are you Catholic, why do you go to mass?", she answered what else is there to believe in.
I believe Catholicism is a political belief, rather than a religion.

Perhaps. I am not catholic. Please remember that most "other" christian religions came about because of opposition to catholicism. This is why I take issue with you lumping all religion into one melting pot.

[Frater G]

vajramukti said:

admin said:

michael said:

The spirit can feed the ego but the ego cannot define the spirit. Enlightenment is the realization of truth in all perceived. Truth empowers spirit...makes it animate. The ego is gone because one acts purely out of Love.

Spirit is you, stripped of all that. You are right, G, spirit can feed the ego, and ego does not define the spirit. Ego can obscure the spirit. Oddly, spirit will never obscure the ego. Simply put, if one completely awakens spiritually, the spirit and ego join, because your perception of who you are changes.

Exactly...couldn't have said it better.

It is tough, because we think of ego as a bad word. Egotistical, and the connotation of arrogance immediately come to mind.

Yup, I guess it is the impromptu use of the ego which is noticed because most people misuse the ego and can relate.

The word ego, literally, is "the I." It is your perception of yourself, and it is based on a complex balance of your perspective of who you are, how you think others perceive you (meta-perspective), and how you think others think you perceive yourself (meta-meta-perspective).

It's a neutral position...driven by intent. Instead of feeding the ego the ego should feed you could say.

[vajramukti]

michael said:

Catholicism is not the high water mark, of oppression, or fundamentalism.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opiate of the people. - Karl Marx

I am afraid I am with Marx on this one Vaj.

And yet, ironically, it is the very ideals set forth by Karl Marx that are, indeed, the high water mark of oppression and fundamentalism. One has to only look at the life of people under the rule of the Soviet Union or China to understand the opiate of the people.

Given the fervor of the radical jihadists, or even of some of the fundamental christians of the world, I think "meth" would have been a better term.

[morningstar]

And yet, ironically, it is the very ideals set forth by Karl Marx that are, indeed, the high water mark of oppression and fundamentalism. One has to only look at the life of people under the rule of the Soviet Union or China to understand the opiate of the people.

True.

I believe it was Napolean who said something to the effect of, "Religion is a tool to keep the poor masses under control."

Perhaps it is important to remember that ANY thing in this world which is revered can and will be used in the wrong way by certain people as a means to elicit control for their own gain. Religion is a fertile ground for this because it is based on faith...the doctrines and words of wisdom that comprise any major religion have, throughout the ages, been subject to defamation - have been twisted and perverted to suit certain selfish needs. This is where the hypocrisy and politics come into play. It is easy to lead people astray - many people want to be given the answer...to follow something/someone - rather than look 'within' many look 'without' for the answers. Using this certainly is an evil use of power and reeks of corruption. But it is a HUMAN corruption and should not be allowed to overshadow any true message.

What we need to remember is that within each religion is a common denominator of truth - a similar reflective path that leads to a higher self. Each lead to the same place - our own souls - the paths always converge. There are just as many ways to seek the truth as there are seekers. Perhaps the important thing is to seek with a pure heart.

[vajramukti]

morningstar said:

And yet, ironically, it is the very ideals set forth by Karl Marx that are, indeed, the high water mark of oppression and fundamentalism. One has to only look at the life of people under the rule of the Soviet Union or China to understand the opiate of the people.

True.

I believe it was Napolean who said something to the effect of, "Religion is a tool to keep the poor masses under control."

Perhaps it is important to remember that ANY thing in this world which is revered can and will be used in the wrong way by certain people as a means to elicit control for their own gain. Religion is a fertile ground for this because it is based on faith...the doctrines and words of wisdom that comprise any major religion have, throughout the ages, been subject to defamation - have been twisted and perverted to suit certain selfish needs. This is where the hypocrisy and politics come into play. It is easy to lead people astray - many people want to be given the answer...to follow something/someone - rather than look 'within' many look 'without' for the answers. Using this certainly is an evil use of power and reeks of corruption. But it is a HUMAN corruption and should not be allowed to overshadow any true message.

What we need to remember is that within each religion is a common denominator of truth - a similar reflective path that leads to a higher self. Each lead to the same place - our own souls - the paths always converge. There are just as many ways to seek the truth as there are seekers. Perhaps the important thing is to seek with a pure heart.

Very well said.

[vajramukti]

michael said:

Excellent point monk, the Ego thinks there is only the five. But the spirit can acknowledge sixth sense. Or maybe seventh.
Can you go a little further with your thinking.

I have, for a long time, thought of our senses as being 7. The sixth sense, to me, is a harmony of the regular 5, and fairly easy to come into if you pay attention and keep your mind open. The 7th is more, and gets into the realm that I do not claim to understand, although I have experienced it.