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Post by vajramukti on Feb 13, 2008 22:10:02 GMT -5
How about a definition of "spiritual?"
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Post by Frater G on Feb 13, 2008 23:34:16 GMT -5
How about a definition of "spiritual?" The word is a broad concept. Here is a dictionary definition to begin with:
Adjective
spiritual (comparative more spiritual, superlative most spiritual)
Positive
spiritual
Comparative
more spiritual
Superlative
most spiritual
1. Of or pertaining to the spirit or the soul
2. Of or pertaining to the God or a Church; sacred
3. Of or pertaining to spirits; supernaturalSpirituality is what someone seeks when they decide to join a particular order or religious order. I think when one finds truth - Veritas... one cannot help but to feel spiritual. I guess it's a sense of the whole you could say. People tend to become detached from themselves when the mundane cycles occupy the mind. However I think real spiritual growth stems from self challenge. Some religious sects from my experience cast veils by tickling the ears. I used to hear "Just give it to God" which sounded good but it didn't address the need within so to me that was shallow. The spirit must be strengthened. And that is through obstacles. |
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Post by vajramukti on Feb 14, 2008 16:38:27 GMT -5
My question was to a general audience Michael. As a martial artist, we often speak of "the spiritual side of the art," and for decades, no one could ever really sum up what that really is to my satisfaction. Then, I read the following:
"I consider that the spiritual life is the life of man's real self, the life of that interior self whose flame is so often allowed to be smothered under the ashes of anxiety and futile concern." - Thomas Merton
So, my definition of spiritual is Truth. If you truly experience something, it becomes a spiritual experience. If, when practicing martial arts, I happen upon a skill that, at that time, encompasses what I am truly capable of, then I have, for that moment, attained a spiritual level of practice.
Spirituality is often confused with religion. I try to practice spiritual discipline religiously. And through religion, I try to seek the Truth.
There are songs that are considered spiritual. I will agree when people exclaim that to me about a particular song, but in reality, the song is only spiritual to those to whom it touches in that way. But, to disagree in conversation would be nitpicking and may perhaps lessen their experience next time they hear the song.
Anyway, to me, Spiritual = Truth.
I am with you, G. When truth is found, spirituality is achieved.
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Post by Frater G on Feb 15, 2008 1:27:50 GMT -5
Never thought of it that way...I think you're right but I believe there's another element. The spirit in my opinion is responsible for animation you could say. It has been shown that a person can die from a broken heart. And I'll bet that a crushed spirit during childhood can result in disease at some place in the body or soul..maybe even in another incarnation. Vaj posed a great question, it's easy to take words for granted.
The definitions in the dictionary I believe were written to show different contexts in the usage of the word itself. The word though is spiritual an adjective.
I had contemplated the placing of the two topic on one board. But I think there is a relation even though the meanings are different. I'll have to think about this some more.
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Post by morningstar on Feb 15, 2008 19:15:13 GMT -5
Great discussion.
For me, I think religion is a medium through which many find or achieve true spirituality. So what then is 'spirituality'? There are certainly many paths that lead to it...many 'truths' that converge upon the same point.
For me personally - spirituality is LOVE. Sounds overly simplistic, I know, but as I break it down, layer for layer, I am left with love. It seems to me to be the eternal spark...that which fills us with joy, desire, fortitude, justice...the will to move forward, to do good, to become our higher selves - to ascend to that which is divine.
I feel there is a 'spark' of the Creator within each of us. Perhaps becoming spiritual means connecting with that spark...feeling it, embracing it. Whenever I've done this - the strongest feeling I can explain is the light of love that spreads through me...powerful and eternal. How we come to connect with that spark is not necessarily what matters in the end...some achieve it through ceremony, the beating of a drum, entering a cathedral, walking in nature...whatever be your path to it, take it and find along it your own soul.
Finding that, within our selves, that which reflects the eternal...that, to me is what defines true spirituality.
Drink from the well that is your own soul? Maybe that, for me, is the essence of it.
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Post by Frater G on Feb 15, 2008 21:16:10 GMT -5
You are right G.....spiritual is an action word. So.... to define it, would be to say "to be spiritual, is to be oneself, to be as one is intended. As freed as possible, from the dominance of a false self, a self created by and as protection from a physical environment, in short an ego. Let's take this a step deeper. If spirit is ego then can one lose spirit if one loses the ego? Perhaps ego is a catalyst you could say. The spirit can feed the ego but the ego cannot define the spirit. Enlightenment is the realization of truth in all perceived. Truth empowers spirit...makes it animate. The ego is gone because one acts purely out of Love. Love is the Law....Seeing truth one realizes the absolute magnificent beauty in all things. One cannot help but to be drawn toward. Our spirit to the one. Our spirit enfolds first matter so we naturally act according. If God were an ocean our spirit would be a drop. Water tends to cohere. Love...... |
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Post by Frater G on Feb 15, 2008 21:45:03 GMT -5
Then ego must be conquered..David slays Goliath.
Aha...namaste...
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Post by morningstar on Feb 15, 2008 22:30:41 GMT -5
This is exactly the point that I was getting at. If you read deeper into my entire post, then you would see that my initial statement was an opening remark to reflect that religion itself is only a 'medium' by which some come to realize their own spirituality.
My personal belief is that religion tends to segregate humankind as a rule...i.e. "say not I have found THE truth, say, I have found a truth" ... is more to my point.
Perhaps I do not relay my message well, however, I feel that spirituality itself is a very personal thing, while at the same time embracing the 'whole' in a sense.
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Post by vajramukti on Feb 16, 2008 0:47:05 GMT -5
For me, I think religion is a medium through which many find or achieve true spirituality.There are always rare exceptions, I will agree. But for the most part, what you have stated M cannot be right. Spirituality is about freedom, religion is about conformity, and obeying the mass. Spirituality is a voyage of one. Religion is about law. I strongly disagree. Morningstar stated that religion is A medium through which MANY find true spirituality. Religion is not about conformity. At it's essence, religion is about likeminded spiritual seekers coming together as a group. Unfortunately, a generation or two later, the group may begin to embrace the dogma more than the search for truth, but that is not what religion is about. I will also have to disagree that spirituality is a voyage of one. Certainly, some parts of it have to be, but look at us. I think that you are starting at your own perception of a particular religion, Catholicism, and lumping all religions in with it. |
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Post by vajramukti on Feb 16, 2008 0:55:34 GMT -5
If spirit is ego then can one lose spirit if one loses the ego? No I wouldn't say that, to lose ego is not to lose spirit. Ego it seems is the master that enslaves five physical senses. They gather information of a physical world. Ego blunders its way through reality, whereas spirit is at peace and rest anywhere. It sifts through what ego processes for truth. They are the real dualism in us, Spirit/Ego, dark/light, light/heavy. Spirit=ego, to me, in the same way that we have a higher self and a lower self. I think Michael and I are on the same page here. I would say that the ego is our identity here. Spirit is our identity on the other side, stripped of the "Adverbs of Being" that we embrace. So, if ego is my identity in this body, and spirit is the identity of my higher self, then spiritual is the search for that higher identity, who I truly am. And yet, seek as we may, and find as we may, we still have to live here. I believe it was Christ, perhaps Paul, but the saying was: "Be in the world, but be not of the world." There has to be a balance. |
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monk
Neophyte
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Post by monk on Feb 16, 2008 0:58:46 GMT -5
Hi All
Over the years I have thought about this question many times. I agree with allot of the points made here so far. My beliefs in a sense is "spiritual" is a farce. Let me explain. Most people use the word as a noun an object . Can you touch spiritual,taste it,smell it,hear it? I say no. However when looked at as an action not an effect"spiritual" takes on a whole different meaning. The best way I can put it is the whole path analogy. It is not the destination but what one observes and experiences while walking upon it.
Spirituality for myself is the point when am silent I am nothing but yet I am everything, when there is no me but I am a part of all. That feeling of complete love when nothing is present but love and Joy.That realization that being spiritual is searching for deeper meaning, whether inward or outward. spirit needs love needs passion.
That in turn I have to agree with Michael on some parts about religion but yet have to ask. "Is religion just a tool?" A spark that lights the-inner fire of some to begin searching deeper? While for some organized religion is fine for some peoples beliefs it tends to light a burning desire in some to search deeper. Religion provides the emotional needs to many the belief and hope that there's more out there than the trials of their lives.Yet I can see how many religions today through their dogma control miss some of the most important tenets of their faith. It is the whole our god is right and your god is wrong therefore if you do not believe what I believe you are wrong mentality? Religion is shouldn't be static in my opinion. As human consciousness and humanity itself grows and evolves so to must religion if it does not want to fade into oblivion.
I was told once by a friend of mine who was a Mason that 2 types of conversation in the lodge were not permitted , religion or politics due to the very nature of division that they tend to result in. That made me think on ego , how many times did I fall into the trap myself instead of respecting others views I was judging to me standards.How many arguments could have been averted?
"Spiritual "to me may just be simply described as being open to everything without ego coming into play . Being open with love is my definition.
Peace and Light
Monk
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Post by vajramukti on Feb 16, 2008 1:06:11 GMT -5
The spirit can feed the ego but the ego cannot define the spirit. Enlightenment is the realization of truth in all perceived. Truth empowers spirit...makes it animate. The ego is gone because one acts purely out of Love. It is tough, because we think of ego as a bad word. Egotistical, and the connotation of arrogance immediately come to mind. The word ego, literally, is "the I." It is your perception of yourself, and it is based on a complex balance of your perspective of who you are, how you think others perceive you (meta-perspective), and how you think others think you perceive yourself (meta-meta-perspective). Spirit is you, stripped of all that. You are right, G, spirit can feed the ego, and ego does not define the spirit. Ego can obscure the spirit. Oddly, spirit will never obscure the ego. Simply put, if one completely awakens spiritually, the spirit and ego join, because your perception of who you are changes. |
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Post by Frater G on Feb 16, 2008 1:09:31 GMT -5
Are you sure about that? Why are we limited to the five senses? To have a sense of the spirit...thats been the age old quest. That's why we gather and compare. Eliminate everything else and what have you got. Maybe it's like Michael said... we are ruled by the five. This is a good kick off thread.  |
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monk
Neophyte
Posts: 9
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Post by monk on Feb 16, 2008 1:25:47 GMT -5
Hmmm
maybe you are right G, how many senses do we possess that may not be tappedinto , perhaps there is many more and my ego is trapped using just 5. Will have to think on this more.
Peace and Light
Monk
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Post by Frater G on Feb 16, 2008 1:28:10 GMT -5
Hmmm maybe you are right G, how many senses do we possess that may not be tappedinto , perhaps there is many more and my ego is trapped using just 5. Will have to think on this more. Peace and Light Monk Thinking out of the box comes to mind. A meditative technique. |
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